The Angels on My Shoulder: Real Deal Public Defense Panel Beckons

I want to be a lawyer. Certainly, that’s why I’m going to law school. It’s what I told people at potlucks and parties. But at some point, it became not just “What do you want to do?” but also “So, what kind of lawyer do you want to be?” I didn’t really have an answer. I knew about the work of criminal defense attorneys, and specifically of public defenders, and that work seemed interesting to me. And so, I started saying I’d be interested in being a public defender (“PD”). But then as I applied to law school, everyone seemed to be doing big law and private practice. I, accordingly, pivoted. I came into law school with a set answer different from what I wanted to do originally, and instead, something familiar to many. Me? I’m doing big law, litigation, hopefully in New York. Law school provides many opportunities to hear about the public interest beckoning. I signed up for The Real Deal: Public Defense panel out of curiosity on hearing public defenders speak and, of course, because this was a RSVP event with catered food, the promise of a solid, likely non-pizza, lunch. I came into Purcell, sat in the very front after much deliberation about where it was best to take notes on the event, and listened in on our four speakers. The panel, moderated by the Career Development fellow Naomi Shumpert, featured a range of public defenders. By order of who spoke first, the panelists were Dominique Fenton ’21, who worked in the Office of the Public Defender for the District of Delaware, Juhi Desai ’23, who works for Legal Aid Society and the Bronx Trial Office of the Juvenile Rights Practice, Chase Gunter ’23, at the Richmond Public Defender's Office, and Nina Herth ’24, who works at the Public Defender Service for the District of Columbia, Special Litigation Division. Shumpert, when asked about how she organized the event, “wanted a fresh and diverse perspective.” She worked with Dawn Davison, resident PD expert and Director of Student Affairs, who formerly worked as Director of Public Service in Career Development, and assembled recent Virginia alum of various PD backgrounds.  

The panel started with introductions and questions about the daily life of a PD, as well as each panelists’ journey to their position and what they found helpful preparing to become a PD. The panelists agree that often days are full of ups and downs, that there are “a lot of high highs and low lows” and it is a “job with a lot of mixed emotions.” Desai focused on having small wins, that while some days had a lot of winning and “beating prosecutors,” that often those same days one might learn a client was reincarcerated as well. Fenton described his path to being a federal PD as more typical than the traditional PD, as federal defenders are not hired straight out of law school most of the time. He mentioned his work in clinics on federal sentencing and a pro bono winter break trip in Oakland as beneficial to him eventually becoming an intern at the Oakland office for federal public defenders, before applying for the Delaware job. Also of note is that he worked a year in corporate law and “hated it,” affirming his beliefs about becoming a PD, before landing his current position. Desai, who works with teenagers in the juvenile justice system, was a high school teacher before law school. This job, plus working in the Holistic Youth Defense Clinic at school, were both instrumental for her in her choosing her path. When asked about the most impactful clients, Gunter described an emotional story about a client who had previously been to jail, and her time spent working for him on a motion to suppress illegally gained evidence on a firearm possession charge. He described how his client had been hounded by the police, and that eventually he was able to return home to his family. Herth described a case of a D.C. man sent to  ADX Florence, a supermax prison in Colorado, with a life sentence at age 18. He was illiterate, but he learned to read and write by watching television captions and spelling through sink drains to other inmates. Through Herth’s work at the PDs, he was freed in his 50s and was able to meet his grandkids and even go to a Costco. To quote him: “First time! That place is crazy!” Finally, looking at something important to everyone in the room, Shumpert asked the money question. Generally, the panelists answered pleasantly. They acknowledged that the salaries were not comparable to big law lawyers, but they were still living comfortably. Fenton also explained that federal PDs tended to earn more than average, and all noted that their salaries progressed step-wise each year.  

So, there it was, the angel on my shoulder, pressing me once again to consider working for the good guys. The questions by students reflected a bit of the mood in the room: Scottie Greene ’29 asked about how PDs remained level against the high amount of resources on the other side, while Maya Nir ’29 asked about whether PDs considered that job to be their jobs for life. Herth described how her team considered the “government is [the] enemy,” but that not being demoralizing, and instead being mad together, was helpful. With regard to public defense being a job or a career, Gunter describes that he wants to do other work eventually, but that PD is a great launch point, as other lawyers love hiring those with real courtroom experience. Personally, I want to do public defense eventually. I hope I can find myself on this path, and I took away from that event that public defense can be for me and is absolutely worth going for. Will I find myself on this path anytime soon? Maybe not. But I know if I listen closely, I can still hear the angels singing the righteous path forward. 

Author: Eddie Zhang ’29